When Lloyd Axworthy was in grade 11,
an inspirational talk by Canadian prime minister and Nobel Peace Prize winner
Lester B. Pearson set Axworthy on a path that would lead him to serve under
three Canadian prime ministers and earn his own Nobel nomination for his work
on reducing landmines worldwide.
After an illustrative 27-year
political career, in true Pearsonian tradition, Axworthy is turning his
considerable international star power to one of the biggest issues facing us as
global citizens: The displacement of millions of people around the world,
driven from their homes by war and disaster.
To help address the lack of coordinated
response to the issue, this week, Axworthy and several other leading voices
from Canada and other countries are launching the World
Refugee Council (WRC), an initiative
led by the Centre for International Governance Innovation (CIGI). The WRC will
develop and promote strategies for more effective, humane, predictable yet
innovative global cooperation on refugees through open dialogue and
In an interview with CIGI’s Mary Ambrose, Axworthy discussed the
current barriers to better responding to the refugee crisis, how technology can
make a huge difference and why Canada is well-positioned to lead on initiatives
like the WRC. (For the full audio of the interview, listen here.)
I found a lovely phrase that you wrote that frames refugees not as a charity concern but as a human rights issue. If you’ll allow me to read it, I’ll ask you to explain it: “The right to asylum is one of the oldest human rights, and one of the original expressions of our shared humanity.”
Well, it’s true, because if you go
back into biblical texts and look at the historical records of Greek city
states or Rome you’ll find that in so many cases, they provided special places
and spaces in the cities for people fleeing persecution, where they could be
immune from attack and victimization and the harassment of those pursuing them.
The whole idea of belonging somewhere, actually having a place in which you
feel protected, to me is the foundation for human rights. If you don’t have
that fundamental protection, then the rest of the rights can’t be built.
As a global community, we have a track record of doing a somewhat better job than this historically, though there were less people on the move. Why do you think we’re now getting this so wrong?
I think partly because we’re in a
period where there is a frontal and sidewise attack against the whole notion of
sanctuary and refuge, and [also] an attempt to restore some outmoded version of
sovereignty where states and nations are built around some notion of purity,
authenticity or culture.
It’s become a political football
that’s kicked in by the worst teams in the world, but they are also providing
entertainment, and as a result the crowds kind of support [them]. We’re finding
the opportunity for people to make choices based upon their rights is being
extinguished, because if you don’t belong, if you don’t have a piece of paper,
if you’re not certified to vote, if you’re not given engagement or commitment
from a state, an entity, then you become invisible, and I think that’s really
part of the problem. We’ve over-mystified the notion of refugees and forget
that they’re people who are escaping calamity for them and their
You were in Germany when the Syrian refugees began to arrive there, and one of the things that you’ve mentioned is that you were struck by the amount of misinformation swirling around that may have contributed to this atmosphere. Tell me about that.
The experience in Germany was really
instructive. I was there as a fellow of the Bosch Foundation to primarily talk
about the Canadian model for refugee acceptance, because we are seen in the
world as a country that has worked hard at public policy, at effective means of
bringing people here and settling them.
I arrived at a time just shortly after
Chancellor [Angela] Merkel had opened the gate and a million people who had
been fleeing their own crises of various sorts poured in. All of a sudden you
saw this very big, very important, very democratic country wrestling with what
it believed in…[and you saw] those who began to restore those old arguments
about ‘Germany for the Germans’ and that we ‘can’t risk terrorism,’ and it
became part of that pantheon of fear and of threat.
As a result, it really did create the
political debate that is now being seen around the world, certainly in the
neighbour to the south of us, certainly seen now in parts of Africa and Eastern
Europe. And it’s spreading — this idea that you can define yourself through a
limited set of choices. Part of the job of the council is [to look at] how we
get back to that liberal world order in which people are given the right to
make choices about their lives because they have a degree of human security,
but also have been given the right to be able to use it in a way that
represents their interests. And right now we’re treating the refugees as some
kind of sub-species or criminal species and not giving them the full respect
that they require.
“[Refugees] are not being given the kind of support that an organized, responsible and just community should provide.”
You were raised in a very multicultural neighbourhood of Winnipeg, you were part of an active church community, you went to Princeton, where you were active in the civil rights movement — is the treatment of refugees the big social issue of our time?
It is a social issue of our time, it’s
going to be the social issue in the very short future, because
the causes, the sources of people fleeing and leaving their home state, their
homeland, are becoming even more severe. Conflicts continue to force people to
seek some kind of protection; the changing environment in climate means that
your ability to survive is again threatened. It doesn’t matter to me, and I
don’t think it matters to people [in general], if your high risk is from some
14-year-old kid with an Mk47 peering at you or drought that has lasted 48 days
and you no longer have water or food for your children. Same thing. They are
not being given the kind of support that an organized, responsible and just
community should provide. And that’s where I think the international community
must take more responsibility, must become more involved. We can’t simply leave
this to border control or internal political cycles — we have to really begin to
build some longer-term institutions, practices, and maybe norms and
A lot of what’s happening is because of
a lack of understanding, a lack of education — we don’t work very hard anymore
really at explaining what makes a plural society work. We’ve talked about being
multicultural, and the prime minister of Canada has declared that that’s our
motif, that’s our talisman as a country, but to understand how it works is
confusing these days, because we’re changing our own demographic pretty
How do you hope the World Refugee Council will contribute to this education?
One of the hopes I have for the
refugee council would be that it provides a forum within which those voices
could be heard. There aren’t many places today where there’s a serious debate
going on. There’s a political debate, which is all about terrorism and security,
[but] the whole debate about the responsibility we bear, even in our own
country, has not taken place in a significant way.
Yet, I think there’s a real appetite
in the public for learning more, for understanding more, for finding out what
happens when you become a refugee, what the loss is that is carried in your
psyche [when] you no longer have an anchor that you can say is home. Those are
the things we have to begin to open up and welcome. Part of the problem…is that
we are criminalizing refugees. There’s a very nasty attempt by certain
political right-wing groups to sort of say, these are the enemies at the gate,
and we have to build the wall higher. You can draw [your own] conclusion what
wall we’re talking about, but it’s happening everywhere, and I think the only
way you break down walls is by opening up the gate.
I think the beginning point is that
the governance system has broken down internationally. Going back to the 1951
Refugee Convention, which was designed as a response to a large movement of
refugees in Europe, and the definition of a refugee, and all of a sudden you’re
finding that sometimes those definitions don’t work. How do you define a
refugee in the world today — is it somebody who’s escaping the secret police
who are going to arrest you if you go back, escaping a bombing situation or the
threat that a warlord and militia are going to grab your kid and turn them into
a child soldier? Or are you also escaping famine and drought and a breakdown of
the sustainable community that you live in?
You went to Silicon Valley looking for new ideas — can you give me an example of something that could really help refugees change or improve their lives?
A group of us, through the sponsorship
of the Aspen ministerial group, met for about a week with the, I like to say, ‘28-year-old
billionaires’ from Silicon Valley, who were all talking about how new digital
technology affects the social contract — the contract that we have related to
our responsibilities to each other. Some interesting pilots are already underway
where you can use smartphones to deliver direct economic assistance to refugees
so that they can purchase their own goods and services and set up their own
businesses and not be reliant or become dependent on large scale humanitarian
We’ve seen some new technologies where
you can register virtually every refugee in the world and build their
historical records so when somebody starts yelling and screaming from a
political platform that they’re all ‘full of terrorists,’ you can say wait a
minute, we’ve got a ledger that shows exactly where Mr. A and Ms. B come from,
and what they’ve done, and who they are. And not only that, we can do it in
nine or 10 days, not 90 days or 100 days.
And a third thing, the whole idea of
virtual reality…we had the experience in the Facebook lab where they gave us
one of these little helmets that they wear where we were able to visit a
refugee camp in Jordan for seven minutes and just watch what was happening. If
you’re able to make that available in movie theatres, or just as you can buy an
Apple TV and plug into Netflix and all the rest, that technology is available
right now; you can bring this live for people to understand.
I don’t think we’ve had enough
dialogue and discussion between the high tech digital inventors and the policy
practitioners and the public, so that we can begin to see if we can find some
effective cost-saving solutions to refugee issues. If we can provide a much
cleaner tablet of identity, then you’re going to take away a lot of the
mystique of those who are using anti-immigration platforms; it disappears,
because all of a sudden you’re creating evidence to the opposite.
You helped persuade 162 countries to creat a legally binding treaty against the use of landmines. That’s a lot of persuasion. Do you think the World Refugee Council is going to be a harder sell, to get people on board?
It’s probably too early to tell, but
certainly not for a lack of trying. I think we’re just really at the beginning
of our process. I think [for the landmine treaty] the role that Canada played
was to bring the different players together — the NGO community, the Coalition
Against Landmines, the International Red Cross, different countries,
middle-sized countries to begin with — it did take some emulsion to bring those
pieces together. That kind of partnership is part of the new politics of the
world that we live in. What Canada did was provide some leadership. Somebody
has to hire the hall and open up the dialogue, certainly [with the WRC] we
start already with a recognition in so many parts of the world that Canada is
one of the few places left where this dialogue is taking place and where it can
provide that leadership, because [Justin] Trudeau’s government has said that
pluralism and openness is part of what makes our democracy work. Not something
to be feared — something to be welcomed.
Given your background, it seems like you’re just the guy for this.
I hope so, but there are others — it’s
really important to bring together a cluster of well-known and active people
who have either been in politics, diplomacy, government, academia or business
together. Each brings a different legitimacy and a different set of concerns with
them. This is not a one-person show or a 10-person show; I think we’ve been
able to recruit some really incredible world leaders to come together around
If the right combustion takes place —
and that’s the job of the council, to encourage all that — then I think we can
provide real service to policymakers, the public and the media about what’s
really going on in the world and how we have to start taking much more
seriously some of the issues that right now are under the rug. We don’t talk
about, as I said earlier, how do you share the burden? Why is it that Jordan,
one of the poorest countries in the world, has four million refugees, and there
aren’t enough people donating to make sure they all get fed, that they have a
There are different points of view.
You’ve got a system where some European countries are paying off dictators in
order to restrict the flow of refugees. That’s against the law, totally against
international standards and mores. That’s one of the real advantages to having
this kind of a council; it has got good, experienced practitioners and idea people,
but it’s independent, it’s not subject to the briefing notes of a
“If we try to simply row by ourselves, then we’re going to sink. If we row together, then we can move.”
If you could get one thing from all these countries, what would it be?
It’s hard to ask an ex-politician and
ex-academic to come up with one idea… I think that really, the area that is
almost invisible for lack of attention is the idea that we’re going to have to
take a look at serious reform at the international level — reform of the
institutions and practices by which we collaborate and cooperate on global
issues. What we’ve learned is that if we try to simply row by ourselves, then
we’re going to sink. If we row together, then we can move. And that’s what
really concerns me right now, is that I think the advent of very large numbers
of people fleeing from fear is going to overcome and swamp so many of our
practices, and there will be panic and there will be retribution and there will
be pushback, and that’s going to lead to a very unpleasant world.
This interview has been edited for length